Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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not the only answer, neutralizing gas drifblim works fine against it. so do celesteela, equilibra, mega blissey, and levitate chople berry bastiodon. there are plenty of bloodmoon answers, with only the minor problem that they don't actually exist
That just seems like a skill issue to me. People and their crappy excuses "oh the counters literally don't exist"! Bah. Just because a mon has a shit ton of survivability, plus godlike power, plus the ability to boost, plus priority, plus a typing ripe for tera abuse (I find the more weaknesses a mon has, the harder it is to guess their tera) is no excuse to ban a mon.

...

(At least according to how we've been doing things so far)
 
IMO bm luna is pretty broken. I've reverse swept (and been reverse swept) so many times when I'm about to get 6-0d by some strong physical attacker and bm comes in, teras and just calm minds, and it's ggs. There is so little defensive counterplay outside of blissey (usually). bm also can't be easily revenge killed if it sets up some calm minds and it's really physically bulky. HOWEVER, there is one possible answer to it...

:sv/eelektross:
Eelektross @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gastro Acid
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Wild Charge
This might not be the optimal set, but it works against bm because it outspeed the most common set with 68 speed evs and it can deal heavy damage with subpunch and if luna turns into a water type, then wild charge will do a lot. Gastro acid can suppress mind's eye and tera ghost + levitate can let it be immune to ep, vacuum wave, and bloodmoon.
252+ Atk Tera Ghost Eelektross Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 220-260 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tera Ghost Eelektross Focus Punch vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 282-332 (68.1 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Eelektross Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Tera Water Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 198-234 (46 - 54.4%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Eelektross Focus Punch vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Tera Fighting Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 141-166 (34 - 40%) -- 39.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Blood Moon vs. Tera Ghost Eelektross: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Earth Power vs. Levitate Tera Ghost Eelektross: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Vacuum Wave vs. Tera Ghost Eelektross: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
 
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I believe that the second dlc is going to buff gardevoir with something more than just the move psychic noise.

maybe the new rainbow tera will be similar to mega-evolutions and gardevoir will be one of the few pokemon to have access to it.

or she may be like ogerpon and receive additional benefits upon terastilizing.

the fact that gardevoir and gallade are currently the only pokemon with access to teleport looks both suspicious and intentional.
maybe they will get some ability upon terastilizing that activates only when teleport is used, like dealing 25% damage to the opponent and bypassing protect.
psychic noise is right, reading this gave me a bad case of brain static
 
IMO bm luna is pretty broken. I've reverse swept (and been reverse swept) so many times when I'm about to get 6-0d by some strong physical attacker and bm comes in, teras and just calm minds, and it's ggs. There is so little defensive counterplay outside of blissey (usually). bm also can't be easily revenge killed if it sets up some calm minds and it's really physically bulky. HOWEVER, there is one possible answer to it...

:sv/eelektross:
Eelektross @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gastro Acid
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Wild Charge
This might not be the optimal set, but it works against bm because it outspeed the most common set with 68 speed evs and it can deal heavy damage with subpunch and if luna turns into a water type, then wild charge will do a lot. Gastro acid can suppress mind's eye and tera ghost + levitate can let it be immune to ep, vacuum wave, and bloodmoon.
252+ Atk Tera Ghost Eelektross Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 220-260 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tera Ghost Eelektross Focus Punch vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 282-332 (68.1 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Eelektross Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Tera Water Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 198-234 (46 - 54.4%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Eelektross Focus Punch vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Tera Fighting Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 141-166 (34 - 40%) -- 39.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Blood Moon vs. Tera Ghost Eelektross: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Earth Power vs. Levitate Tera Ghost Eelektross: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Vacuum Wave vs. Tera Ghost Eelektross: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Kid named Mind's Eye:

For real tho, it being able to hit Ghost types with its normal stab is a big part of what makes BM so obscene, it means it doesn't have to run a third move for coverage and can flex its 4th move between Vacuum Wave, Hyper Voice, Moonlight and even shit like Body Press
 
Shit I thought it was acid armor for some stupid reason

That said the fact that we pull out this kinda set to check BM is not really a good sign
agreed. the fact that most of the anti-bloodmoon tech we have includes some variation of this phrase:
This might not be the optimal set, but it works against bm
is an indication that it's impossible to check defensively with things that are worth running outside of it. bloodmoon has no switch-ins that are both consistent and viable
 
Just saying, if we banned Ghold, Corv would be able to just Defog on Gliscor and friends without the cheese stick blocking him.
But then we're banning something that isn't broken to buff one single Pokémon, instead of the one who creates the spikes in the first place and can't be stopped by any other hazard remover. Should we ban Gholdengo for how it interacts with Corviknight, or ban Gliscor for how it interacts with the entire tier? Corviknight can defog on Gliscor on teams that don't have Gholdengo and Gliscor is still broken in those interactions, and how it interacts with other removers is completely non contingent on Gholdengo
 
Ok, but real talk Equilibra would be gas if it actually existed
consistently switches into bloodmoon's stabs and doesn't really fear vacuum wave much because of its 102/118 special bulk, has access to rapid spin and the capability to both threaten gholdengo and wall gliscor, stealth rock resist that doesn't need boots to come in on spikes… of course the scales pokemon would be the thing that singlehandedly balances the meta
 
consistently switches into bloodmoon's stabs and doesn't really fear vacuum wave much because of its 102/118 special bulk, has access to rapid spin and the capability to both threaten gholdengo and wall gliscor, stealth rock resist that doesn't need boots to come in on spikes… of course the scales pokemon would be the thing that singlehandedly balances the meta
Also 133 SpA Doom Desire and the ability to use Bulletproof for the occasional C-Team measure against Dragapult and Focus Blast users
 
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Also 131 SpA Doom Desire and the ability to use Bulletproof for the occasional C-Team measure against Dragapult and Focus Blast users
bulletproof especially helps against gholdengo in particular, which is very nice for a spinner, but i'd still run levitate 100% of the time in the current meta, largely because of how everywhere gliscor is
 
You know, I forgot about Scorching Sand. When that moves return in the dlc 2, Moltres is going to be better with Defog coming back as well. Moltres running Defog, Roost, Flamethrower, and Scorching with Spd as well can scare Ghold. Lol if Ting Lu gets Scorching Sand and Gliscor as well would be hilarious
 
You know, I forgot about Scorching Sand. When that moves return in the dlc 2, Moltres is going to be better with Defog coming back as well. Moltres running Defog, Roost, Flamethrower, and Scorching with Spd as well can scare Ghold. Lol if Ting Lu gets Scorching Sand and Gliscor as well would be hilarious
why are you confidently asserting that these things are returning? you have no idea whether scorching sands is coming back or whether defog will get re-tm'd. if you actually had access to dlc2 movepool info, you wouldn't be sharing it on the smogon ou meta discussion thread
 
Ok, I know this is definetely not going to solve the problem, but I thought it would be funny if we ran worry seed on pokemon like amoonguss, meowscarada and shiftry. It means that gliscor can't switch in and takes damage from poison, while Gholdengo can be hit by status moves. This is especially nice for shiftry as it also can then defog on Gholdengo.
Just a funny thing I thought of that is more just a meme/cheese option.
 
Ok, I know this is definetely not going to solve the problem, but I thought it would be funny if we ran worry seed on pokemon like amoonguss, meowscarada and shiftry. It means that gliscor can't switch in and takes damage from poison, while Gholdengo can be hit by status moves. This is especially nice for shiftry as it also can then defog on Gholdengo.
Just a funny thing I thought of that is more just a meme/cheese option.
I don't think that worry seed can go through good as gold because it just so happens to also be a status move.
 
Bronzong @ Choice Band
Level: 100
Sassy Nature
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 156 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Night Shade
- Trick

This is a UU set I used to form a core with Chesnaught, and it has some kinda relevance here.
Switch into a CM, take a blood moon and be left over half, trick em choice band and they are locked into the next move made.

+1 252+ SpA Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Blood Moon vs. 252 HP / 156+ SpD Bronzong: 135-159 (39.9 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Vacuum Wave vs. 252 HP / 156+ SpD Bronzong: 52-62 (15.3 - 18.3%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
Leftovers assuming BLuna is running lefties and you successfully trick them. Gyro does fuck all (max 25% with band, less without), so you really just trick, get rocks, and exploit whatever they lock themselves into. Blood Moon makes them struggle.

This mon has some utility vs Scale Shot Chomp, and banded gyro goes kinda hard:
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Bronzong: 180-215 (53.2 - 63.6%) -- approx. 2HKO (fuck thats so much)
104 Atk Choice Band Bronzong Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 387-456 (108.4 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I am very unfamiliar with OU, but knock off got very widely distributed so this mon is even less relevant as a rocker. I'm sure the birds don't like getting tricked CB, Non-STAB heat wave doesn't usually do over half. Zong isnt great, and lost toxic, but it handles this exact matchup ONCE.
 
Yeah, sadly it can't. I'm now sad due to the cheese string man foiling all our plans.
Neutralizing Gas Gweez, that way you're not running a move for only one matchup. It's interesting that Gliscor is inspiring otherwise-unviable teambuilding choices to check it however, typically signs that a Pokémon is warping teambuilding to an unreasonable degree
 
Gholdendo is such a tragedy, it really is. It's a really good, solid mon. At first, I found it to be too much, but on its own, in a vacuum, it's not overbearing at all. Nice typing that's not too hard to handle, a great ability that works well for it, plenty of weaknesses, it's a neat mon.

It's a shame it came out this gen. Everything else is the problem. If we had more hazard removers, we would have no issue. But this the hand gamefreak dealt.

Shoulda came out last gen.
 
It's interesting that Gliscor is inspiring otherwise-unviable teambuilding choices to check it however
is it, though? one of its most solid offensive answers happens to be waterpon, arguably the most viable teambuilding choice in the tier besides gliscor itself. she absorbs knock off and resists eq, easily 2hkos fully invested gliscor with ivy cudgel, and breaks tera water sets with her grass stab. gliscor's only hope in the matchup (outside of off-meta stuff like poison jab) is to be the sd facade set and set up before waterpon comes in and outplay her with your tera once she's out. or just run tera dragon, but then you can't dodge ice moves as handily

there's plenty of other viable stuff that forces gliscor to either tera or switch too—manaphy, greninja, walking wake, rain teams in general, and of course alolan ninetales, who hits both of gliscor's most common teras (water and dragon) supereffectively with freeze-dry, so you can't even play the tera mindgame against that one. and that's just the supereffective stuff
 
Gholdendo is such a tragedy, it really is. It's a really good, solid mon. At first, I found it to be too much, but on its own, in a vacuum, it's not overbearing at all. Nice typing that's not too hard to handle, a great ability that works well for it, plenty of weaknesses, it's a neat mon.

It's a shame it came out this gen. Everything else is the problem. If we had more hazard removers, we would have no issue. But this the hand gamefreak dealt.

Shoulda came out last gen.
Honestly, I agree. Being able to block all forms of hazard control is amazing and although they would have to nerf Good as Gold to make it less constricting on teambuilding, it is a cool concept. If Gholdengo had another ability, Good as Gold could be banned. Also if the hazard removal negation effect (say that ten times fast) was on another ability that was it's sole purpose i.e it also blocks court change and tidy up but not status, I think could be a cool idea. Sadly, it would still probably be too broken and if it was given to any decent pokemon, it would be banned.
(Also I'm trademarking the ability's name as Litterer protector)
 
Mind that hazard removal is of no fault to Good as Gold, that only stops Defog and Defog alone. Giving it to a Ghost type is the problem. Making it a Steel type while also making a poison type Rapid Spin is a slap in the face.

Maybe they make a Grass or Water type rapid spin? Something.
 
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